Is Politeness Dead?
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September 22nd, 2006
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I've shamelessly stolen the headline from my friend at Issa's World and her recent post about politeness. She discusses how polite her kids are and how frustrating and strange it is to constantly run into rude people when it's so easy to be polite. She sums it up well by saying,
"It's weird, but before we were trying to teach the girls to talk to people and say hi or thank you or ask for things nicely, I never noticed how rude people are. People run into you in the store and never say sorry. They'll walk right in front of you and never bother to say excuse me. I see people ask others for things, a waitress or deli guy and never say please and thank you. How freaking hard is it to be polite? "
That's a great question. I did steal the title but not the idea, this is something I think about constantly. It was always a focus of my parents when me and my sister grew up. And it's certainly high on our list for what we're trying to accomplish with our children. I rather die than see my kids grow up to be some impolite, obnoxious, unsocial, little shit kids. I would say that my parents succeeded and did well in some aspects but failed miserably in teaching us other ways of being polite. The benefits and failures from childhood is something I carry with me even today.
Is politeness dead? Simple answer is yes, but perhaps a better answer is that it's not trendy or fashionable to be polite today. I think people in general believe that anyone polite must 
be a skinny dork in glasses who never goes outside, has no social skills, and no friends. Being polite is important to me. I can't tell you how fucking pissed off I get at people at work, at the bus, or just idiots in general who's parents never taught them basic skills. I don't demand a lot, at least I don't think so. I want people to say "hello", "Good morning" or something similar when they see people they know, "thank you" when I hold up the door or are nice to them, say "please" when they want something, shake hands when meeting someone new, and behave in a generally kind of friendly way. I would hardly say that's asking a lot. But I see a trend among kids today to be rude and not have respect for anyone or anything. But it's not the kids fault. It's their stupid parents who don't bother to teach their kids to be friendly and act with common sense.
When I grew up my parents thought being polite was important. They had good jobs but don't think we were rich or were being taught how to eat oysters or what fork to use for dinner. We were just a regular family. 
Being polite was especially important when we went to visit my grandparents a couple of times a month. They did lots of entertaining, had nice china, and we always had to dress up and behave well to make our parents proud. We had to shake hands, talk politely for a few minutes, not mess up the place, eat the same food as everyone else, then ask for permission to leave the table and play quietly in the other room. We had a tremendous respect for my grandparents, actually we were probably a little scared of them. Especially my grandfather who spoke in a deep strong voice and was very strict. He died when I was around 12 years old which was a shame but the odd thing is that he never really spoke to us, played with us, or paid much attention. It was not done in a rude way but I never remember him showing any kind of love towards us, hugging us, or telling us stories. I never thought much about this when I was young, and it didn't bother me then, but I do think quite a bit about it now when I have my own children.
I often brought some shame to the family in my younger years. I did many stupid embarrassing things. Nothing major but I do remember my parents being ashamed of me many times. But at least I was still polite:-) 
The areas of politeness where my parents failed miserably was socially. Being polite is not only saying polite things or not being rude. An important part is also interacting with other people, making friends, and being able to speak to girls. I guess fitting in would be a good summary. This we were never taught. One thing I remember well is that we never went to restaurants. Maybe twice a year we had a hamburger and that felt like a luxury thing. My parents, especially my mother, always thought going out to restaurants was stupid, expensive, and unnecessary. Which of course completely misses the point. Going out occasionally as a youngster teaches you how to behave around other people, make children more mature, and is also lots of fun. Being able to eat at a restaurant, not necessarily a very exclusive one, is a great skill to know as you get older. But more important are the social aspects of being at a restaurant and being forced to be social. To speak to other people. To chit chat.
Talking to girls or someone you don't know well is much about chit chat. You talk politely about things in general in order to get to know each other. This was never a focus in our family and I've had to suffer 
for many years because of this. I wish someone would have told me it was an important skill. I never knew how to chit chat, with girls or anyone else, until I got "old". It was when I met my current wife many years ago I really had to pay for my lack of social skills. When I first went down to Mexico in 1989 to meet her family I probably had the worst month in my life. Everything went wrong and a majority of that was because I didn't know how to talk to other people. I was polite but at the same time an impolite asshole. I was shy and felt uncomfortable talking to people I didn't know well. And even then I didn't understand the tremendous value of being social. That's when my education in social skills really started and I slowly learned how to interact with others. It took ten years and is still very much a work in progress. I have many painful memories from these years which could have been avoided by some easy "training" by my parents early on in life. But I did finally learn to hang out with others and miraculously my wife didn't dump me despite everyone in her family plus friends, urging her to do so.
My younger sister never was fortunate to travel the world and never had to learn to chit chat with others. She's still stuck where I was at 15 years when interacting with most other people. 
I guess she has a good life but it would be totally different if she felt more comfortable about herself and her abilities. Her kids are nice, well actually I don't really know because they never say a word. During our stay up north last summer we saw them for a few hours but they only managed a "Hello" and "Bye" They are still 12,9 and 7, or something like that, and I think there is lots of possibilities for improvement. A refreshing contrast would be our trip to Germany this summer and the stay with our friends at Chateau Sibbel. My friends Robert and Heike have managed to raise their three boys (9,8 and 5) exactly what every parent must aim for. Polite, outgoing, educated, and just incredibly nice. We had never met them, and they didn't even speak English, but they took such unbelievable care about Daniel during our two weeks that we were almost shocked. If my kids turn out that well I will be ecstatic.
Chatting at the dinner table is a simple way to encourage some social interaction. I guess we did that sometimes at home but were also allowed to read. I do remember my dad reading at the table all the time. That will not happen with my kids. Being social takes lots of training for some kids. For others it comes naturally. It certainly didn't come naturally to me and I really, really, really wish I could have been better prepared for life in this area. If I'm giving the impression that my parents didn't do a good job raising me you are mistaken. I had a good childhood and have had a nicer life than anyone I know. It's easy to look back at your parents and point at all the things they've done wrong. That's not fair. It's of course impossible to do everything right and every parent try to do the best they can. It's a luxury having your own kids. You get to form them the way you want with the values that are important to you. I do incorporate many things my parents did well in raising us and avoid things I hated. I'm sure my children will do the same when they grow up and look a their lives. Hopefully they will look back at their young lives and let me know a few things I did correctly.
Have a nice, polite weekend:-))
It often blows my wifes mind, becuase I am such a cynical and critial personality type of person that I am BIG on politeness and manners. Don’t know why. My parents taught me manners, but I never felt it was “drilled in” or anything of the sort. It is just the way a good person acts. End of story. And I have tried to raise my daughter the same way. It doesn’t matter how rude someone else may be, it is only important that you take care of YOU being polite to others.
What blows my mind these days however, more so than the rudeness itself (which I guess is just commonplace now), it how people act so SURPRISED if I do something as simple as hold a door open for somebody (particularly somebody old, or just appreciates the gesture), or say hello “unprovoked” They get this stunned look like, “Who does that anymore?” It surprises me that people expect so little of each other, that such a little gesture gets greeted with such shock. Have we really fallen that far? Sad.
Excellent post, and one that really resonates for me.
My husband is from Central America, and, on a level, far more polite thatn most Americans. But it is weird, for example, in his country the norm is to say “goodbye” to the room as a whole when leaving a restaurant; not to do so is rude. Certainly, the respect and courtesy he was raised to show his elders is exemplary, and he always says “thank you” for any simple thing I do-scrambling his eggs in the morning gets such enthusiastic appreciation that I can believe he married me for my breakfasts.
But he was taught absolutely zero about normal social chit chat. Dinner was eaten in silence. He never even had a friend over for supper. Now, he is stull inclined to hop up from the table-or even eat at his desk-as soon as the final morsel has passed his lips. It is really crippling, and it is odd, but I see a lot of it as related to the kind of self consciousness that would lead someone to have to say “goodnight” to an entire room of strangers eating their own meals. It is as if every interaction is freighted with the weight of the individual’s importance. As an American, I don’t say “goodnight” to those with whom I have had no contact, but I also don’t worry about saying “the wrong thing” in casual encounters. Heck, with me it is inevitable-but a smile takes care of most infractions.
Oops. Baby is up-too early. Grrrr
Hej, Håkan!
Vi har med stort intresse läst om din socialt påvra och fattiga uppväxt och ungdom. Inga restaurangbesök och väldigt lite kontakt med dina far- och morföräldrar.Du har nog inte riktigt insett skillnaden mellan då och nu. Vad Kristina och hennes barn anbelangar, tycker jag du ska vara mer ödmjuk, dom är definitivt inte som andra, åtminstone inte Marcus och Erica, och det är inte juste av dig att hacka på dom! Det är ju som att få en skitig disktrasa kastad i ansiktet för Kristina, när du jämför med de tyska praktexemplaren till barn som ni träffade i somras!
För övrigt visste vi väl inte så mycket om dina sociala brister och svårigheter, den meste tiden gick ju åt till idrott. Vi är glada att du är sakta på väg upp och hoppas att allt skall falla ut väl!
Mamma och Pappa
Vi har med stort intresse läst din berättelse
Hello,
I have to wonder myself if politeness and just common courtesy exists. I am a volunteer at a Youth Sports group, along with many others. ONE WOMAN ONE FREAKING WOMAN–no courtesy, never polite. Like I live my life to jump to whatever she beckons.
She is RUDE, nasty rude. To the point she got kicked out of a store our park does business with. And you know it’s not just me, she is like this way to others. She is a bad apple, the poison of a good group of families! I try to treat everyone nicely, graciously, and always try to be POLITE. But at what point is the envelope pushed to far… This is my first comment in a blog and I hope I haven’t ruined it, I just needed to express myself. Are there still well raised nice people out there who are polite…
Oct 3rd, 2006 at 12:25 pm
[…] Last week I talked about politeness in the post "Is Politeness Dead?" It's important to me that my kids are nice and polite, but not snobby and obnoxious, and we try to teach them basic skills that will help them out later in life. I mentioned that my parents did an overall good job with me being polite but also a poor job with another aspect of politeness, social skills. Like being able to talk to strangers, make friends, and chit chat. I was very surprised by the reaction of my parents who were furious that I dare saying they did a poor job in some area of raising us. They were flapping like salmons. I did say they failed with our social skills but I also gave them a damn good grade over all. Or does this sound like a bashing? […]
Oct 11th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
[…] Posted on Wednesday 11 October 2006 It's very helpful to have good routines with the children. I think it's good for the kids and it sure is helpful for planning the day/week. Annika is just now at two months of age beginning to follow a loose routine which is something we've been missing so far. Previously she could eat three times in three hours and then nothing for five hours. Or fall asleep at 5 pm or 9 pm. It makes daily life complicated. Especially when you have more than one child. Now we're doing fairly regular feedings every 4 hours or so and she goes to sleep around 8 pm. every nigh and is usually asleep when I go to work in the morning. With a couple of night feedings of course. Although I like routines they do present a problem. And it's a big problem for some. Getting used to routines for some means doing nothing unexpected which can move the schedule an hour of two. Nothing that shakes up everyday life and makes you do something fun and different. No little spontaneous excursions. No restaurants where you don't know exactly what food they have and how your child will like it. And no spontaneous trip around town with no planned destination. And definitely no trips by plane since no one knows what can happen at the airport or if your child will sleep. The problem with this kind of thinking is that you get old. And you get old fast. Being 35 and living like a 75-year old isn't appealing but I see it every day. The challenge is to stick to routines that are good for the children and the family but still aim to life a fun and satisfying life. I consider it very important to feel young in the mind and body. For me it's a life quality issue. As the years go by I still want to feel good and be able to run around with the kids as much as I want to. Physical fitness is important but the mind is the key. If you don't force yourself to stay active and do new things, your mind will get old faster than you ever thought possible. Being spontaneous at times requires good confidence. A confident person will handle unexpected situations well and perhaps seek out the unknown. For the record, I'm not good at this. Or at least it's not natural behavior for me. I'm confident but not a spontaneous person. I touched on this in my post "'Is politeness dead?" where I talked about my polite upbringing that lacked important parts in the social area. I was also raised to be careful, not take risks, and just kind of fit in. This worked out well but it also means being boring. I started to change, or rather forced myself to change, after I met my wife many years ago. It doesn't come natural to me so I constantly have to think of doing new things and force my brain to think this way. It may sound easy but it's not. Being married to a Latin woman means many spontaneous and unexpected situations. Almost daily. It's frustrating at times but it's also refreshing. I have a cousin of mine who is the total opposite. She's got two kids and never leaves the house. Because leaving the house means possible unexpected events. She doesn't even want to go over to a friends house because of the breastfeeding issue. What issue? Everyone breastfeed in Sweden and you can do it anywhere without anyone even glancing at you. I think living this way makes you very old, very quickly. I'm afraid of this happening to me. I don't mind losing my hair or being older but I just don't to be 40 and living like I'm 80. That's no fun. Having routines is important but to have good routines you must know your child and her needs well. My sister in law is the anti-routine person. No schedule whatsoever is far from good for a child and makes family life a complete mess. Last year she spent a month with us and the first day around noon Daniel was getting ready for his nap. My SIL said that her child doesn't nap any longer which we thought strange since she was 20 months old. She goes to day care but takes no naps said my SIL. What happened? Her child proceeded to take a daily nap every single day during the whole month. The only reason why she didn't nap at home was that she was never given the chance because of poor planning. And also that my SIL doesn't know her child. So how does a family keep good routines but still have fun and do some spontaneous things? How do we keep the mind young? I think priority one is to establish good routines for your child. That includes regular feeding times, naps, and a good night routine. When that's in place, perhaps after 1-3 months, there is more time and confidence for creative things. It's not so much what you do, it's just doing something different. What's really important is to venture outside the comfort zone. This can be really tough. What's a comfort zone? It's where you spend 99% of your time. Leaving this zone is educational and refreshing but problematic for many. It's little bit like facing your fears and overcoming them. Although being out of the comfort zone doesn't have to be that dramatic. Different workout routine, new restaurants, new friends, new travel destination, different kind of book, try different foods at home, or go to places in town you've never seen before. It can be a little thing or a trip to another continent. It keeps you young and ready to meet new challenges. Having kids is a life changing situation. For me it has been positive in all areas and having kids should not mean stop living. Life is just getting started around 35, there is no need to act like 75. And don't forget that our children copy our behavior, good and bad. Acting and showing them that new situations are something to embrace is a wonderful gift that will stay with them their whole life. […]
Dec 7th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
[…] Posted on Thursday 7 December 2006 Raising our almost three year old son has gone fairly well. So far. At least I think so. But as I've mentioned before, the real judge of how I've done will not be me. It will be my son and his sister. The goal is not to have a nice three year old. The goal is to raise my son to be a good, well behaving person as he gets older. When he's 15 or 20 years old I would love for him to tell me that me and his mother did a great job. But I would also appreciate if he told me what we did poorly. My parents obviously feel differently since they freaked out after reading of some innocent things I didn't like with my upbringing. Life turned out fine for us but I can't help to wonder about where things went wrong in other families. Parents who say they've tried everything and always see no other way than dramatic change as a way to send a message. Knowing more would mean learning important lessons of how not to raise a child. There are tons of these situations but I've read about a couple in the past two days which makes me wonder if I could ever end up in a similar situation? How about calling the cops when your 12 year old opens his Christmas present too early? Or leaving your 15 year old alone for two year in a Cambodian Buddhist temple? Sounds drastic to me. Things are never as simple as they sound in the papers but relations must have been going south years before such action was required. Personally, I would consider myself a complete failure as a father if my son had to go through something like this. Or is this perhaps more common than we believe? I see a problem today with accountability. Parents often don't feel responsible for their children's actions. When bad things happen it's a bad crowd, horrible teachers at school, Grandparents, friends, or society in general who is at fault. Never the parents. I couldn't disagree more with this kind of reasoning. I think it's important to take credit for things done. Good and bad. Fortunately I've never had a problem with this in my adult life. But it does take courage to admit faults and realize there is much to improve. I consider myself 100% responsible for my children's actions as they grow older. If my son turns out to be a serial killing rapist, you can blame me. But I will also take credit if he becomes the President of the Red Cross and teaches underprivileged kids in his spare time. All the credit for good things will of course stay with me while my wife obviously must be blamed for 50% of all the bad stuff. Isn't that how family relations work in todays society? […]